It's not about being in some clique, it's for people who don't fit in with any thing.

That I can't argue with.

GG, himself, is a whole other story.
posted by jonmc at 4:19 PM on March 30, 2005

Just goes to show you how the name you're given at birth can have an effect on your development. I can't wait to read the news stories about Aryan Justice in 30 years or so ...
posted by pmbuko at 4:27 PM on March 30, 2005

The most disappointing thing about GG (putting aside the rape conviction) is that what I've heard of his music is remarkably average. It dosen't live up to the persona, and if want to see violent psychos puke and maim themselves, there's plenty of crazy people wandering the streets of New York who I can watch for free.

For a "psycho artist" who delivers go with Jim Goad. His work matches up with his badassery.
posted by jonmc at 4:31 PM on March 30, 2005

As for the point GG's existence in the music scene made, Wild Man Fischer made it first, better, and with less bloodshed.
posted by jonmc at 4:34 PM on March 30, 2005

He use to play down the street from me all the time in NY, but I was too afraid to go see him.
posted by alfredogarcia at 4:47 PM on March 30, 2005

Rock'n'roll has to be destroyed and rebuilt in my name if it's ever gonna accomplish anything.

Better yet if rock is finally laid to rest in favor of something new and original.
posted by HTuttle at 6:45 PM on March 30, 2005

Better yet if rock is finally laid to rest in favor of something new and original.

I smell a pile-on coming on.
posted by NickDouglas at 7:22 PM on March 30, 2005

how about four mop-topped lads from liverpool? has that been done?
posted by quonsar at 7:23 PM on March 30, 2005

Artist formerly known as jonmc: what do you see the point of GG's existence in the music scene, and how did Wild Man Fischer make the same point? (I read your link, but I don't see much connection...if anything, I would have compared Wild Man Fischer to Wesley Willis)
posted by Bugbread at 7:24 PM on March 30, 2005

Artist formerly known as jonmc: what do you see the point of GG's existence in the music scene, and how did Wild Man Fischer make the same point?

The point of Wild Man Fischer was this: the hippies and freaks of the late 60's superficially lionized "insanity" and breaking free of limits. Frank Zappa unleashed Fischer on them as a way of saying "Oh Yeah? Are You Sure?"

Wild Man managed to squick those who thought themselves unsquickable (and to be occassionally moving while he was doing it). GG seemed to be doing the same but he had to resort to violence to do it.
posted by jonmc at 7:28 PM on March 30, 2005

Ah. Makes sense.

I disagree about the "had to resort to violence" part, though (emphasis mine).
The hippies and freaks superficially lionized wacky, unpredictable, loopy insanity, and I gather Wild Man Fischer provided the "Oh Yeah?"

The rocker/SidViciousEndOfPunk folks lionized self-destructive, aggressive, violent insanity, and GG provided the "Oh Yeah?"

Without the violence or self abuse, I don't think GG Allin would have had any effect on the scene, because he would then have been part of a different scene.
posted by Bugbread at 7:34 PM on March 30, 2005

Without the violence or self abuse, I don't think GG Allin would have had any effect on the scene, because he would then have been part of a different scene.

Sadly, GG's violence made him into entertainment for the type of people who like to watch snuff films. He was devoid of Wild Man's pathos, so that made him less redeemable in my eyes. YMMV.
posted by jonmc at 7:39 PM on March 30, 2005

NTM, GG's music was remarkably tame compared to hype surrounding his life, so it tells me that the cult surrounding him exists for all the wrong reasons. He's Jackass for people who are too jaded for Jackass ultimately.
posted by jonmc at 7:42 PM on March 30, 2005

I think WikiPedia needs a new (edited) entry:

LOSER: See GG Allin.

This guy sounds like a fucking idiot—enabled by idiots.
posted by teece at 7:46 PM on March 30, 2005

-Better yet if rock is finally laid to rest in favor of something new and original.
posted by HTuttle at 6:45 PM PST on March 30 [!]
--I smell a pile-on coming on.
posted by NickDouglas at 7:22 PM PST on March 30 [!]

damn am i tempted...

the one things i like about GG Allen is that he IS a performance artist, though I don't think it was a choice. if accounts are to be believed, GG's father was beautifully, morbidly, creatively, violently insane. He grew up in a household where psychological and physical abuse were impossible to disentangle from love, art, and freeform mythology.

and the song "don't talk to me" is kinda fun.
posted by es_de_bah at 7:46 PM on March 30, 2005

GG's father was beautifully, morbidly, creatively, violently insane.

The fact that you used the word "beautifully" in that sentence tells me that you're one of the folks that Zappa sicced Wild Man on.
posted by jonmc at 7:50 PM on March 30, 2005

that was unneccessarily harsh, es de bah, since I don't know you, but I hope you see the point I'm trying to make here. That insanity is only "beautiful," if one is not directly effected by it's manifestations.
posted by jonmc at 7:51 PM on March 30, 2005

i should add that i agree with teece...idiot. asshole. loser.

but also a victim at some point. and damned interesting. kind of a mixture between Charles Manson and Hunter S Thompson. sto weird to live to rare to die.
posted by es_de_bah at 7:53 PM on March 30, 2005

Through a former room-mate I know a good deal about GG. The guitarist on his first 7" was J. Mascis, I think. Also, this room-mate and I have been to his grave in way-northern NH. Good times.
posted by sohcahtoa at 7:56 PM on March 30, 2005

I would watch GG allins documentary before blowing him off however your ideological mind sees fit.
posted by Dean Keaton at 7:56 PM on March 30, 2005

jonmc : "That insanity is only 'beautiful,' if one is not directly effected by it's manifestations."

Right, but the only GG Allin fans I know of were of this mindset: He's beautifully insane, because he's cutting himself, and not me.

I think the same thing when I read about the really old pre-Boredoms Hanatarashi concerts, where Eye Yamantaka rode a backhoe through the audience and accidentally gashed himself severely with a chainsaw. It's cool, because it's incredibly insane and hardcore, but the only people who got hurt were the folks in the band, and not me.

Other peoples' insanity has always tickled folks to one degree or another (think of all the Van Gogh or Picasso fans). I can't imagine Wild Man or Allin would change that for anyone, it just might help them decide where their parameters ended.
posted by Bugbread at 8:00 PM on March 30, 2005

I never saw him perform, but he played at (and lived above) the Covered Wagon Saloon in San Francisco for a while. A bartender pal warned me not to see the shows even though I was intrigued, and I regret not having the guts to go.

Another friend saw GG get ganged up on and beaten to a pulp by a bunch of jerks outside a club. They left him there in a heap. But GG got up and chased the guys, beating them with his flailing broken arm and scaring them off. From people who knew him, that guy was a pretty badassed crazy mofo.

That's it.
posted by NorthernSky at 8:04 PM on March 30, 2005

Other peoples' insanity has always tickled folks to one degree or another (think of all the Van Gogh or Picasso fans). I can't imagine Wild Man or Allin would change that for anyone, it just might help them decide where their parameters ended.

But Van Gogh, Picasso, and Wild Man show you the human being beneath the sickness, which can cause those who care about such things to feel some empathy. GG just makes me think "get this psycho a padded cell and a straightjacket."
posted by jonmc at 8:13 PM on March 30, 2005

yeah...i don't think GG Allen is great artist. Maybe a 'successful artist' in the Ayn Rand sense of the term, in that he successfully externalizes and makes visable his view of life.
I really just think he's an interesting glitch in society. One who managed to amass a following. Now you can say that there's enough stupid people out there that any old wacko can amass a following with a little luck and timing, but maybe that's the point.
posted by es_de_bah at 8:21 PM on March 30, 2005

Whoops. Severe sleep deprivation: I meant Dali, not Picasso (I don't know enough about Picasso to know if my mistake even made serendipitous sense).

I suppose you're right about the empathy end. Visual artists or musicians (yes, I realize GG Allin is nominally a musician, but I certainly don't consider his fame to be related to it) are a bad comparison with performance artists, because what they create and what they do are different.
posted by Bugbread at 8:22 PM on March 30, 2005

es_de_bah : " I really just think he's an interesting glitch in society. One who managed to amass a following."

We are very much in agreement.
posted by Bugbread at 8:24 PM on March 30, 2005

I almost went to see him in college in Austin, TX. But didn't. So I relied on my friend's second-hand report:

He came onstage, naked, bashed himself in the head with the microphone until he bled all over himself, then grabbed a crutch from someone in the audience and started hitting people with it. Then someone in the audience started spraying mace, and the crowd panicked and rushed the door. The whole show was over within ten minutes. Then the cops showed up and arrested him.

If that ain't art, I don't know what is.
posted by fungible at 8:32 PM on March 30, 2005

Yes, everyone loves a good train wreck. Poor GG. He'll be the only guy to go to hell and absolutely LOVE IT! BTW isn't his brother Mearle the GOATSE guy?
posted by snsranch at 8:42 PM on March 30, 2005

J. Mascis was GG's guitar player? Are you sure? Cause that's pretty mind blowing for me.

I feel like an absolute tool for saying this, but watching the "Hated" documentary my sophomore year in college was a life changing experience.

And jonmc is absolutely right, gg's music was absolute crap, but I don't think that the music was the point.
posted by greasy_skillet at 9:01 PM on March 30, 2005

A bandmate of mine put him up a few times, said that he was actually a pretty nice guy. Though prone to masturbating right there in the living room, if he lost interest in what was going on.
posted by bendybendy at 9:05 PM on March 30, 2005

I'm not out to please anyone.

Rock'n'roll has to be destroyed and rebuilt in my name...

Narcissists need to please everyone in order to please themselves. They are little boys/little girls worshipping their own reflection because their all consuming neediness can never be satisfied, especially not by their fans. "I'm so special," they constantly say to themselves, because they desperately need to believe it, but simultaneously never really believing it, so they subscribe to the hopeful theory that repetition makes it true.

Narcissism. The ultimate insecurity. GG Allin: the ultimate narcissist.

Note that this is my own interpretation, not necessarily endorsed by your neighborhood shrink.
posted by Chasuk at 9:37 PM on March 30, 2005

greasy_skillet: Here's a reference. Doesn't look like it was necessarily GG's first record, but they did work together. Seems to make sense to me, they're both very reclusive New Englanders.
posted by sohcahtoa at 3:50 AM on March 31, 2005

GG actually worked with quite a few notable musicians: Wayne Kramer, Dennis Thompson and Michael Davis from the MC5, J. Mascis, Gerard Cosloy from Matador Records (and the band Envelope)...

I was at his last show, and as visceral concert experiences go, it was the best $7 I ever spent on a performance. I feared for my life there to a greater degree than I did on 9/11, and that happened across the street from my office. I was exhilirated when it was over and I realized that I hadn't been stomped or covered in GG's shit or blood (I was very careful to keep people between us.).

Don't get me wrong -- the music was crap. For the last decade of his existence, GG believed all his press clippings -- that he had a bigger impact on music and the world than he did. Meanwhile, his voice was shot and his lyrics didn't even have the third-grader potty joke silliness of his earlier stuff, some of which was fairly good ("You Hate Me and I Hate You", for example.

All in all, GG was a very small blip on the landscape, an amusing one, if you managed to stay out of the way. Nothing more.
posted by AJaffe at 5:43 AM on March 31, 2005

Just goes to show you how the name you're given at birth can have an effect on your development.

Actually, back in the 'ol NH about a million years ago, I was in a band with a girl that had gone out with him briefly. (before his shitting on stage days). His biggest secret was that his name was actually Wayne.

I met him once or twice later. My impression was that the guy was a boderline schizophrenic. He'd be fine for a while than completely flip out in a not-cool and pathetic manner.

And yeah, I saw a couple of his shows. They were fun, but felt like sideshows. He really didn't give a shit about the music, and it showed.
posted by lumpenprole at 6:42 AM on March 31, 2005

I always thought the "Jesus Christ" thing was a myth. But well, if it's on Wikipedia, it must be true.

Wild Man Fischer won't let any of his albums be rereleased, because he thinks that Frank Zappa was just making fun of him. Which is a shame, because the world needs "Monkeys versus Donkeys" more than ever. (For similar content, though without the actual insanity, see James Kolchaka)
posted by klangklangston at 6:50 AM on March 31, 2005

Wild Man Fischer won't let any of his albums be rereleased, because he thinks that Frank Zappa was just making fun of him.

Frank was somewhat callous in his use of Fischer to make a point, but I think there was more going on there than the "Let's Laugh At The Nut," attitude that a lot of listeners have towards him and similar artists. And "Come To Rhino Records," is definitely affectionate.

Supposedly, Rosemary Clooney was so moved by Wild Man's "Lord, Send Me A Kid," that they recorded a duet of it. That I'd like to hear, but it may be an urban legend.
posted by jonmc at 6:58 AM on March 31, 2005

Severe mental illness using punk rock as an excuse. Not interesting.
posted by scratch at 7:14 AM on March 31, 2005

Wow. What a sadly predictable pile-on by a bunch of people who don't actually seem to have even listened to the guy's music.

Suggested listening:
Queers, faggots, drunks and junkies (probably my favourite)
You give love a bad name
Hated in the nation (originally a Roir cassette; this is the one with J. Mascis BTW)
Brutrality and bloodshed for all (the last record; yes, his voice is shot here - he sounds kinda muppetish - but the songs are great)

I have loved GG Allin's stuff for a long, long time. It can be funny, it can be harsh, it can be depressing, it can simply make you tap your feet the way good rock'n'roll should. Most people coming on here can't get past the fact that violence or bodily fluids were a frequent feature at shows (as Nick Zedd suggested, just stand by the soundboard).

It saddens me. I mean, I love Metafilter but whenever the subjects of taboos or sex come up, everybody freaks out & gets incredibly square. And jonmc - I realised after the fifth or sixth post that he doesn't meet your cool criteria. Did you really need to keep regurgitating ad infinitum that you don't like him? We get it, seriously.

Basically I thought it pathetic that this fine post met such a one-sided deluge of derision and dismissal. Thank you john. IMHO GG Allin was one of the greatest OTT rock'n'rollers *ever*. Bite it you scum. Live fast, die.
posted by stinkycheese at 7:35 AM on March 31, 2005

Rosemary Clooney and Wild Man did a duet on "It's a Hard Business," which was contained on the Rhino Handmade limited-edition box set release "The Fischer King."

Stinkycheese, it's Freaks, Faggots, Drunks and Junkies...

In 1989, I left a message for Wild Man at Rhino, and he called me collect that night. We chatted for about 15 minutes, and it ended like this:

WMF: So, am I bigger than Guns n' Roses in New York?
Me: Among my friends, you certainly are.
WMF: OK, bye.
posted by AJaffe at 7:40 AM on March 31, 2005

AJaffe, you are 100% correct. I was just very PO'ed when I posted & that slipped by.

An old band I used to play in frequently ended our shows with "Dope Money". Great tunes on that one.
posted by stinkycheese at 7:43 AM on March 31, 2005

GG's early stuff is quite listenable, and the stage patter on "Hated in the Nation" is priceless...
posted by AJaffe at 8:19 AM on March 31, 2005

it can simply make you tap your feet the way good rock'n'roll should

Oh, I'd just chalk that up to coincidence.
posted by scratch at 8:27 AM on March 31, 2005

GG Allin and his band blew one of my P.A. speakers when they played at skate park in Dalton, GA that I ran sound at on the weekends after high school/before college.

I decided not to run sound that night because I didn't like the possibility of him throwing his feces at me shortly before beating the shit out of me with a 2x4. Color me square. In retrospect it's probably just as well, since GG, the band, and everyone in attendance got arrested by the Dalton police that night.

Also, I'm fairly thankful that that is the only thing about me that has ever been "blown" by GG Allin.
posted by Human Stain at 9:31 AM on March 31, 2005

whenever the subjects of taboos or sex come up, everybody freaks out & gets incredibly square.

I dunno stinkycheese, I don't sense a lot of uptightness, just dismissal. Which, fwiw is about what I think his work deserves. As I said, I saw him a couple times and was entertained, but not really impressed. And having seen bands like the Cramps, Jesus Lizard and Butthole Surfers multiple times, i'm certainly familiar with guys getting naked and doing weird shit to themselves on stage. But the difference is that without that stuff Allin's music is just completely not interesting. When you ask people (well, music fans anyway) about him you get "wasn't he that guy who stuck pencils up his ass onstage?" and yeah he was. And yeah that's about all he offered.

Then again I might be prejudiced because of being around him. He really was a pain to deal with.
posted by lumpenprole at 9:32 AM on March 31, 2005

I saw GG at one of his last shows at NYU's Loeb Center. After taking the stage, he asked the audience for a pair of sunglasses. Once he had said glasses, he threw them to the floor and stomped on them, to the utter surprise of everyone. A naked man then joined him on stage and GG prepared to have sex with him by whipping out his dong as the guy got on all fours. Just as he was about to insert, campus security shut the whole thing down and dragged the two of them out of there. He died soon there after.
posted by haqspan at 12:03 PM on March 31, 2005

Well, if nothing else, I've really enjoyed all these live GG stories. I think I'll go home tonight & play "Needle Up My Cock" real loud.
posted by stinkycheese at 12:54 PM on March 31, 2005

Whether or not you find his music or act appealing, I highly recommend Hated. There's a clip of him playing something on an acoustic guitar and that scene, for some reason, changed my thoughts on him a lot. Something compelled him to do what he did, something that I don't think can be easily pigeonholed or swept aside, and I think that alone is enough to merit at least intrigue and possibly even some respect. I remember a quote where he says something like "If I weren't doing this I'd probably be killing people", and I don't doubt it, but he chose to do this instead. By any means it's a pretty close look into the life of a very uniquely disturbed person, and that's something I find more than a modicum of value in.
posted by nTeleKy at 2:38 PM on March 31, 2005

I also have to recommend Hated - I was just watching it again last week. It's one of the most hilarious films I've seen. There are just so many funny things - the spaced out naked drummer, the fact that GG insists on taking his clothes off all the time even though he has the smallest dick in the world, the bizarre facial hair, the Ramone who joins the band and then quits after one day, the students laughing at GG until he starts throwing chairs at them - and there's more! All pure comedy gold.

There's a part of the movie that I think explains what drives GG. He says how he basically has no plans for the future, that everything he owns is what he's wearing and whats in a paper bag. And that's it, he entirely lived in the current moment without thinking about consequences, he didn't care about the future because it never crossed his mind to.
posted by dodgygeezer at 2:13 PM on April 3, 2005